11:03 < Laura_RIPENCC> Hello (again). Welcome to the Address Policy Working Group 2nd session. My name is Laura from the RIPE NCC.
11:03 < Laura_RIPENCC> I will be monitoring chat during this session. If you have a question or comment, I can read it out for you. Please make your questions as clear as possible. I will read out any questions when the speaker asks for questions at the end of his/her presentation. Please note that all chat transcripts will be archived and made available to the public on https://ripe68.ripe.net/
11:04 < boggits> yay audio is working
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11:04 < boggits> (hint can we please have some background noise during breaks for sanity)
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11:05 < Laura_RIPENCC> Marco and Jan will present now on the language of RIPE Documents.
11:05 < widell> +1 boggits
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11:14 < boggits> Q on 6 - can IXP get IP addresses from ripe without becoming an LIR for âother purposesâ
11:15 < Laura_RIPENCC> @boggits I will ask your question - can you tell me your name/org?
11:15 < boggits> james blessing - keycom
11:15 < Laura_RIPENCC> thanks
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11:17 < rhe-786> James, that's explained in https://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-451
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11:17 < rhe-786> It can be either directly or through a sponsoring LIR.
11:18 < rhe-786> Oh, wait, sorry, "other purposes," that can be just as anybody gets address space.
11:18 < rhe-786> Either as an LIR, or as PI through a sponsoring LIR.
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11:19 < boggits> Q - If we are going to do must/should for some examples we must look at must/should for *all* cases
11:20 < Laura_RIPENCC> @boggits am I to relay your comment on the mic?
11:20 < boggits> please
11:20 < Laura_RIPENCC> ok
11:20 < boggits> rhe-786: yes it was taking the should in context changes the meaning (hence the question)
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11:23 < rhe-786> boggits: Ah, I think I see, they can get it without becoming an LIR, but that's covered by either should or must as I read it. :-)
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11:25 < Laura_RIPENCC> @rhe-786 I'm assuming your comments are directed at James and not to the room. Let me know if you would like me to read anything out.
11:26 < randy> it should be clarified or it must be clarified?
11:26 < rhe-786> Laura_RIPENCC: Indeed. I'm big enough and ugly enough to get to the mic myself. :)
11:27 < boggits> and heâs only a few feet away from it :)
11:27 < Laura_RIPENCC> great - it's not always clear who is here :)
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11:29 < Laura_RIPENCC> Next up is the discussion of open policy proposals.
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11:30 < Laura_RIPENCC> starting with 2012-02 (Inter-RIR transfers of IPv4)
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11:36 < Laura_RIPENCC> Does anyone have questions or comments for Sandra on this?
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11:39 < boggits> Q - what was the methodology for the âmovesâ calculation?
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11:40 < Laura_RIPENCC> done!
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11:41 < Laura_RIPENCC> Next up is 2014-01 (Abandoning the minimum allocation size for IPv4)
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11:44 < Laura_RIPENCC> Are there any comments or questions for Carsten?
11:49 < Laura_RIPENCC> Now to Erik Bais and 2014-02 (IPv4 PI transfers)
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11:55 < ripe779> If someone doesn't obey the law should we change the law so it fits what people do ? This creates a bad precedence
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11:56 < Laura_RIPENCC> @ripe779 is this a comment for the mic? and if so, can I have your name/org?
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11:57 < ripe779> Yes, Ciprian Nica, IP Broker Limited
11:58 < Laura_RIPENCC> ok!
11:58 < ripe779> Btw, I can't login to irc with some other name except ripexxx
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11:58 < boggits> try using /nick newname
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11:59 < Ciprian_Nica> Thanks
11:59 < Ciprian_Nica> 2nd comment: there are hijacking of ip space happening. Should we create a policy to allow this since it's something happening ?
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12:00 < Laura_RIPENCC> ok Ciprian - will ask both when Erik asks for questions
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12:05 < Ciprian_Nica> Wrong intent is misusing PI space
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12:07 < Laura_RIPENCC> is this for the mic, Ciprian?
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12:07 < Ciprian_Nica> If it's time, then please
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12:07 < randy> @laura: is the goal to have an accurate registry or to prevent people from making money?
12:08 < Laura_RIPENCC> ok - am in the queue
12:08 < boggits> Comment : I think we are the only ones within the uk with 2 /22 from the last 8 - but only because we bought another company
12:08 < randy> OMG! the outrage!!
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12:13 < Axu> which presentation is this discussion about?
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12:13 < Axu> i'm at another seminar so i can't open the video stream, i'm just watching the transcript
12:13 < Ciprian_Nica> There were 28 x /22 sold from the last /8
12:13 < Ciprian_Nica> in RIPE region
12:13 < Laura_RIPENCC> it's about IPv4 PI transfer Axu
12:13 < Axu> k
12:13 < Axu> 2014-01 was it?
12:13 < Laura_RIPENCC> 2014-02
12:14 < Laura_RIPENCC> https://www.ripe.net/ripe/policies/proposals/2014-02
12:14 < Axu> has the presentation on 2014-04 already gone?
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12:14 < Laura_RIPENCC> yes
12:14 < Laura_RIPENCC> oh wait
12:14 < Laura_RIPENCC> 2014-04 is not on the agenda for this session
12:15 < Axu> was it the last session then?
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12:15 < Laura_RIPENCC> not that I am aware of - it might still come in the aob?
12:15 < stolpe> it was just mentioned I think
12:16 < Axu> "there's this thing called 2014-04, and now to more important things?"
12:16 < Laura_RIPENCC> next up is 2014-03 (remove multihoming requirement for ASNs)
12:17 < Laura_RIPENCC> sorry Axu
12:17 < rhe-786> Well, 2014-03 isn't in the published agenda either, so don't give up hope yet, Axu! :)
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12:18 < Axu> i'm not that worried. it's already getting overwhelming support on the mailing list
12:19 < Axu> i'm just trying to attend when it's presented, even while at this other seminar ;-)
12:19 < randy> @laura: could job give some examples of other needs for AS number than multi-homing?
12:20 < Axu> peering
12:20 < randy> that's multi-homing
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12:20 < Axu> some people will argue that multi-homing equals multi-transit
12:20 < Axu> not me tho
12:20 < randy> soem people argue the world is a toroid
12:21 < Axu> and some people will argue just for the heck of it
12:21 < randy> i have noticed
12:23 < Axu> iirc the GEANT ASN wasn't visible on the global routing table for the first few years of its operation
12:23 < Axu> because it originated no routes and it was only used between NRENs
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12:24 < Laura_RIPENCC> @Axu is this a reply to Randy or a comment for the mic?
12:24 < Axu> i'm not sure, i'm probably thinking out loud
12:24 < Axu> you can voice it if you think it's relevant
12:24 < Laura_RIPENCC> ok, let me know if you would like me to read anything out
12:24 < rhe-786> Axu: I think GEANT has had some on-net transit since it was used, so it should have been visible. It's predecessor used a different ASN for the transit ("DANTE World Service")
12:25 < ripe082> If you are single homed, are you not supposed to use your upstream AS? And run routing through your single peer?
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12:25 < ripe084> you can't do just rubber stamp
12:25 < Laura_RIPENCC> @ripe082 - if this is for the mic can I have your name/org?
12:25 < ripe084> because there is no YRC
12:25 < ripe084> if RIPE NCC hast to give them
12:25 < Laura_RIPENCC> sorry - ripe084!
12:25 < ripe084> I'll ask 2**32 ASN tomorrow
12:25 < ripe084> and i 'll get them
12:25 < ripe084> and no one else can get any ASN
12:25 < Laura_RIPENCC> oh dear - too many comments - getting mixed up
12:26 < ripe084> if there is 1USD YRC, problem is gone
12:26 < Axu> the important bit is not to panic
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12:26 < rhe-786> Axu: Before the current AS20965 it was split between AS9010 (world service/transit) and AS8933 (I think, memory may be failing).
12:26 < Axu> right
12:27 < Axu> are the dante asns still in use, btw?
12:27 < Axu> (out of topic)
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12:27 < rhe-786> 20965 is
12:27 < Axu> i don't think of geant as dante :)
12:27 < rhe-786> I don't know the state of the older ones. They don't appear on whois.ripe.net
12:27 < ytti> laura: coauthor comment 'simple rubber-stamp would allow anyone to exhaust whole space'
12:28 < ytti> for the mic, if possible
12:28 < Laura_RIPENCC> ok
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12:28 < ytti> due to lack of YRC, which is crucial
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12:29 < Laura_RIPENCC> @ytti, what is your name again?
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12:31 < Axu> he is saku ytti
12:31 < ytti> yeah
12:31 < Laura_RIPENCC> sorry - mic has been closed
12:31 < ytti> understood
12:31 < Axu> darn, i was looking forward to hearing you try to pronounce tht
12:31 < Axu> >:)
12:32 < Laura_RIPENCC> :)
12:32 < Laura_RIPENCC> 2014-04 is up now
12:32 < Axu> roger
12:32 < Axu> i'm Aleksi Suhonen, the co-author of that
12:32 < Laura_RIPENCC> ok, let me know if you want me to make any comments
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12:35 < Axu> comment to nick hilliard: we didn't want the initial proposal to be overcomplicated
12:35 < Axu> we did think of other RIRs already before publishing the initial proposal
12:42 < Laura_RIPENCC> Thanks everyone for your participation. The session has now ended. See you next time!
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12:42 < Axu> thanks
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